WTF Archive

Thursday, December 31, 2009

WTF: Please get an abortion. As University students, we know that can't support a child and it will ruin our prospective university careers.


12 comments:

  1. AnonymousDecember 31, 2009 at 10:50 PM

    i fully agree, but i know you are going to be pounced on by people saying things like "oh you douche, it's their decision"

    no one is saying it isn't, but it will get in the way of your education

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  2. AnonymousJanuary 1, 2010 at 12:04 AM

    Stories like this really get at my heart.

    To the woman involved, I know it's going to be really tough either way. Just don't do something you will truely regret for a long time to come. You can get through this alright and be a better person for it. Go with what your heart says, and find people who will support you on it.

    And to OP, it sounds like you're thinking completely black and white. Which is very understandable, considering the the stress you must be under. It will certainly get in the way of your education, but it does not need to ruin your university career. I don't know what faculty you are in, but I have to counselling services/dean's office when in my own personal crisis, and have found them very understanding. It is certainly feasable to take a couple of terms off without any academic penalty.

    And finally, I'm sorry to have to say this, but you have to think beyond you and your university career! Even if you don't equate abortion to any kind of moral wrongdoing, what most people don't realize is that the emotional toll on the woman is very often a steep one. What she needs is to follow her heart and be supported in it.

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  3. AnonymousJanuary 1, 2010 at 4:52 PM

    I am a girl and I completely disagree that it is only my decision. I mean it will effect the both of the people. It takes two to make the baby, it should take two to decide the call of action.

    with this said, do think long term. You dont want to regret this forever. I know that my mother got an abortion even after being married when it was very early on into the pregnancy. There were some health problems and the baby might have died anyway, but she still made the decision. To this day she still believes that it was the right decision. I mean babies die in complications all the time... I think it is wrong to think of the embryo as a baby, by the same logic, every egg and semen is half a child and every time you masturbate or mensturate youre killing a potential kid.

    All Im saying is, it is not necessarily murder or a life altering decision to get an abortion. But dont just get it because it is the easy way out. Think it through- and if youre truly not ready then it is probably better for the kid. Also, I hate to say this, but consider adoption (which is so much harder, I always thought).

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  4. AnonymousJanuary 1, 2010 at 5:01 PM

    A LOT of pregnancies end in miscarriage anyways. Conception isn't some sacred thing — it's pretty basic biology, and a lot of times it doesn't quite work right. Miscarriages early in a pregnancy are not usually traumatizing, and neither are abortions. Occasionally, yes, but usually, no.

    Don't just think about yourselves. Will a child born to two teenagers really have the same social and financial opportunities that other kids receive? Can you give it a good childhood and upbringing? Will you just put more strain on your parents?

    There's a lot more to being a good parent than just giving birth, or paying child support. Think about that before you decide what to do.

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  5. AnonymousJanuary 1, 2010 at 5:22 PM

    I think (hope) we can all agree that once the baby leaves the womb, abortion is no longer an option. What about one or two days before birth? What about 5 weeks or something? It's just so arbitrary in my mind, I don't understand how people can rationalize it.

    And 5:01, listen to your own weak arguments. I can tell you have guilt over this and are trying to rationalize it away. Otherwise you'd say "there is nothing amoral about abortion". Instead you try and say "it's not THAT bad because..."

    Let's use you're arguments to justify reckless loss of human life in general:
    "A LOT of people end of dying anyways. Life isn't some sacred thing -- it's pretty basic biology, and a lot of times it doesn't quite work right."

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  6. AnonymousJanuary 1, 2010 at 6:52 PM

    "I think (hope) we can all agree that once the baby leaves the womb, abortion is no longer an option"
    That's what you think ;) lol jk

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  7. AnonymousJanuary 1, 2010 at 10:01 PM

    There IS a difference between a child that was conceived a day or two ago and one that is a day or two away from birth. Just because it's arbitrary in YOUR mind doesn't mean it is in everybody's.

    A baby about to be born is conscious. They have a working brain. A "baby" (more accurately, an embryo) that has just been conceived is simply a bundle of cells. No consciousness, no brain. They're no more sentient than the hair growing from your head or the chair you're sitting on.

    That's why there's nothing immoral about abortion.

    That being said, OP, this is one of the most difficult decisions that any woman can make. I know that you think this is the right choice, but it's so hard to know without being inside her head. Give her some space to think about it... and good luck, no matter how things turn out.

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  8. AnonymousJanuary 1, 2010 at 11:01 PM

    Sometimes OP, there are more important things than a university degree.

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  9. AnonymousJanuary 2, 2010 at 1:03 AM

    "No conciousness, no brain."

    Man I love these remarkable moments, when the experts among us illuminate the essence of an issue with such clarity. Not.

    You think something such as human conciousness and the underlying physiology is just so simple... "One moment it isn't, the next moment it is."

    Just look at how certain mild-altering drugs can fuck with your conciousness. Also see the numerous accounts of people who were mistakenly believed to be in a permanent vegitative state, except that they were concious and aware the whole time, only paralyzed, and were lucky enough to snap out of it and tell us.

    Finally, lets get back to the main issue. Researchers in early concious development have known for some years now that from as early as 6 months in the womb, and perhaps earlier, the unborn child is both aware and emotionally active:

    "The fetus can see, hear, experience, taste and, on a primitive level, even learn in utero . . . Most importantly, he can feel -- not with an adult's sophistication, but feel nonetheless. -- p. 12"
    (The Secret Life of the Unborn Child, Thomas Verny, M.D., with John Kelly, Dell Publishing, New York, 1981)

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  10. AnonymousJanuary 2, 2010 at 9:39 PM

    Yeah. That's because at 6 months, they have a brain.
    People who are in vegetative states also have brains.
    Oh, and people who take mind-altering drugs? Yup, they still have brains.

    I'm talking about embryos. An embryo is not the same thing as a fetus. Embryos do not have brains. They don't have ears or tongues or eyes. They can't see or hear or taste anything. They are not conscious, because consciousness mean being aware that you are alive. Awareness requires thought. Thought requires a brain.

    It's really not that difficult.

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  11. AnonymousJanuary 2, 2010 at 11:02 PM

    Not that difficult eh?

    Then why did you leave a such hugh margin of 6 months minus a couple days between when a (potential) baby "has a brain" and does not? Because it is arbitrary, that's why.

    Why is it arbitrary? Just like any long term biological process, "6 months" or "8 weeks" or whatever can only be a ball-park number. Some people hit puberty really early, others really late. It's the same with many other complex biological processes, and the stages of pregnancy are no different.

    I still don't understand how you can rationalize it. It's not sports or fashion we're talking about here, we're talking about the potential murder of innocent life if we get our facts wrong. So tell me why is it not arbitrary? Or you can admit that it is.

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  12. AnonymousJanuary 3, 2010 at 1:18 AM

    Okay, do you even understand what the word arbitrary means?
    Since you don't seem to, let me tell you.
    "... a term given to choices and actions which are considered to be done not by means of any underlying principle or logic". The very fact that we DO research about this completely destroys your whole "arbitrary" speech.

    Research shows us that the first brain activity occurs at about 25 weeks gestation, and the first signs of EEG activity can be seen around twelve weeks. Sure, these are "ballpark" numbers. That doesn't make them ARBITRARY. These numbers are careful estimations based on years and years and years of solid research. If I were to say "A baby doesn't have a brain until 25 weeks because I said so", THEN maybe you could accuse me of picking an arbitrary number. But as it stands, you're just being foolish.

    We also leave space around these numbers because of the chance of error. Most doctors will not abort past 20 weeks because of the chance that the baby has developed early. That five-week cushion gives us the assurance we need to make this a viable option for mothers in distress.

    So "arbitrary"? Not at all. Once you've found an argument that doesn't involve the use of a word you don't understand, get back to me.

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